Misplaced somewhere among the madness of 2020; just prior to it's release - I found myself on a cold rainy night, waiting for TOM NAUMAN - guitarist for long standing German Power Metal masters PRIMAL FEAR to talk about the release of METAL COMMANDO - the bands thirteenth release.

Welcome back, Tom. How are you?

Hey, Mark. How is it going? Oh, I'm fine. I'm actually pretty good. I woke up early this morning because I've got some kids to bring to kindergarten. All is good and all is well, and the weather looks nice today. No rain, sunny, so all good. How about you?

It's not too bad. It's about seven degrees here at the moment. It's quite, quite chilly and cold and rainy at the moment. We're in the middle of our winter.

Okay. You are based in New Zealand or Australia?

In New Zealand.

New Zealand. Oh, how is New Zealand? Tell me about it.

It is good. New Zealand is great. I guess we're COVID-free, for the most part. As a nation, we're free. We've got that under control. A few issues at the borders, but I think, yeah, as far as we go, that's actually pretty, pretty remarkable, I think.

I also thought that because Australia's got the most venomous animals on earth, I thought that New Zealand would be the same, but I've heard that you've got no snakes at all, right?

We've got no snakes. We don't even have snakes at the zoo - I don't think we legally allow them into the country. We've got venomous spiders, but that's about it, really. Yeah, I'm glad we don't have snakes. Yeah.

Yeah. The last time we played in Australia, I was closing all the windows at the hotel. I checked everything, if there would be something venomous in my room. I was really scared.

Right. How many times have you guys played in Australia?

Two times, I guess. We played Melbourne and Sydney, two times. I think the last time was in 2018, I guess, which was real fun, because when we are on the road and then we do an American tour, then we are planning to go to Japan. Then we go to Japan, it was like, we're in Japan, we can do Australia as well, because it's in the same corner. But do you know that Japan to Australia is much further than Europe to New York? You know that?

We're in Japan so we can do Australia as well. I'm like, what the f**k are you doing? It was great to be in Australia.

Yeah. We normally get gigs on the tail of either Japan, Australia and that kind of circuit, but even then, a lot of bands are going a little bit of a detour just over to New Zealand is actually a lot more expensive than you might think, just in logistics as well, which is a shame. We've been getting quite a few good bands through lately, but no Primal Fear yet.

No, not yet, but it's not up to us. It's about the local promoters. I love to play everywhere. I don't have a problem to play everywhere. That's the deal - if there is a local promoter who would like to have us and would like to pay for all the traveling costs and hotel costs and all this stuff, that's the most important thing. I don't have a problem playing in Wellington or whatever, and I would have fun going there. I would love to play in South Africa. I would love to play in Thailand, and everywhere around the world, but sometimes there's no local promoters, or we are not interesting enough for the local promoters to come down and play the show here.

In Germany, we've got a thing called Rock Meets Classic, and I've been playing in a rock band with a 40 to 60 piece orchestra and then every year we bring in some famous musicians. This year, we had Alice Cooper and then we had Robin Zander from Cheap Trick, and last year we got Ian Gillan, so we got a lot of famous people out there. Then when we announced the tour schedule, the dates, everybody is, "Oh, why don't you play in the North? Why don't you play in the East? Why don't you play in the West?" All that stuff. It's not about that. We would like to play everywhere, but when there's no local promoters who will take the cost, we cannot play there. That's the reason why sometimes Primal Fear cannot play in Australia or New Zealand or somewhere else. But we really would love to, because we're a live band, and we love to play live, but sometimes it's not possible because of local promoters.

Yeah. I know from speaking to several local promoters through other avenues, they want to bring power metal down, but I know that power metal in New Zealand is a little bit more of a niche market. It doesn't necessarily work out cost effective. There's a lot of bands that would like to have come through, and have expressed interest in coming through. It's just not really viable for the numbers wise, I don't think, often.

Yeah, sure. If you're thinking of playing maybe two or three shows in New Zealand, we'd have to travel from Europe to New Zealand. Maybe we can have a stop in Japan, but you still have to pay all the costs flying from Japan to New Zealand and back again. Then we are eight to ten persons, the band and the crew, and then you have to take care of all the guys, hotel rooms and all this stuff. It could be much more expensive than you will get with your income from playing a show.

Yep. I guess lately as well, with the pandemic, we've now got to deal with the lack of international travel, or having to have bands go into a mandatory 14 day isolation before they can even play, which is an interesting proposition for touring coming up. I don't know how involved the band members are in the day to day running of tour scheduling and that kind of stuff, but what's your take on the touring scene as it's going to be shaping into the future?

Right now, nobody's allowed to go on tour and play all their stuff. We needed to postpone our America tour, which would have started in May. Probably we'll do it in May '21. We do not have any summer festivals right now. We will release our album July 24th, but we don't have any possibility to support the album playing live. Then we have a European tour in September, October, so we need to postpone this as well. I guess we will start in February '21, but we are still not sure if it's going to happen. Everybody was like, "Okay, when the virus will be over, we will play in 2021." But in 2021, everybody's playing because everybody's postponing their tours right now, so we have a lot of bands who are scheduled to do a tour right now, or in the autumn and winter. They are all rescheduling their tour in '21, so that means that a lot of bands are on tour then.

I'm not sure if it really helps the band when they have all these people, because they cannot afford to buy tickets for every show you would like to see at once, and you're still on tour. The virus will not stop on New Year's Eve, and go, "Okay, that's it. I've got one year, so I'm over. I'm out." We don't know that. We are in summer right now, so when winter comes back, I don't know if there will be another virus, or the same virus, if we'll find a cure for that stuff. We don't know what will happen. Maybe it will go away in the summertime because it's too hot. Maybe it will stay. We don't really have a clue. We still have nothing against the virus, so we still need to sit it out and just wait.

The good thing is that Matt and I decided to write a new Sinner album, and record the Sinner album as well. We are not allowed to play any shows or to go on tour, so we try to stay positive and productive. I hope we can do the touring, because I would love to play in Europe, America, Australia, Japan, all that stuff, but-

…New Zealand :)

...sure. New Zealand. I'm sorry that I forgot it, because I never played there. Yeah, I'm not sure what will happen in '21, so we just need to sit and wait. That's all we can do. We hope for the best that the virus will be over soon, but we'll never know.

Yeah. I guess even when it's cleared up, the threat of it is still there. It can always just come back from one person. We had one person escape from isolation and walk into a supermarket yesterday, so there is that.

You never know. Maybe there will be another virus close to this one? Maybe it's more dangerous and more deadly? You don't know what will happen in the future, so we really need to find something to get rid of this shit. We hope that there will be no other virus around. I think that the virus was around for a couple of years, but right now it's really starting to get dangerous for us, so I hope that there will be some cure, that we will all survive. Hopefully, there will be no other virus coming up in the next couple of years.

Right. You were talking about staying creative, and I was just thinking. As everyone's writing new songs and staying creative in this pandemic era, we're going to be having probably a lot of songs and a lot of metal and stuff that's going to be related to conspiracies, viruses, global disasters. You also mentioned the new album, which is coming out I think here on July 17th, it's a great album, man. I've been blasting this for a while. Talking about that creativity, you guys have been going, what, about 22 years now, or more?

Yeah, it's been 22 years now, 22 years right now, or 23 years right now. We're still going strong. We are happy to be still on the radar after all those years, and well known in the world. We're happy that we are able to release albums. It's the thirteenth album. If you know the music business, there are not a lot of bands that can release so many albums and be on the radar for so many times, so we're really happy. Now we're back with Nuclear Blast, which also gives us another push for the future. I think this will be a great collaboration between Primal Fear and Nuclear Blast, because we started with Nuclear Blast and we've been successful with Nuclear Blast. I hope we can continue this successful journey in the next couple of years.

I was going to say, when I put the album on and I was just listening to it, there's a familiarity to it. The album, the artwork - is familiar. The song structure and the sound is definitely Primal Fear, but it's fresh. There's newness to it as well, and there's just an intense energy that is just…

Yeah, you're right.

I believe Matt, in the promo material was saying, "What's heavy is heavier, what was epic is even more epic." That's the album to a T. Everything there is just even higher, up a notch, and…

Yeah. We started just writing songs. I think at the end we got 30 songs, so we decided which songs we will put on the album, and then we started recording it. We started with Michael and the drums. He's a new drummer. He's from Gamma Ray and The Unity. He brought in a lot of new freshness and that stuff, and we got really, really keen on recording the album. Everybody paid 100% in blood, sweat, and tears and everything. Everybody was, "Wow," and we were really into it. It was a lot of fun to record the songs and to work on the songs. Everybody gave their ideas and put some melody into the songs. We're pretty, pretty amazed and proud of what we achieved with the album. Yeah, I think we recorded a good album, and can't wait for it to be released, because I would love to hear the reviews and the critics of our fans. I hope they will like the album.

Yeah. I thought it was interesting. The final track, it's a 13 minute epic. It's the kind of thing I would expect from Fates Warning or other progressive metal bands, but not necessarily something that I would expect from a power metal band. Power metal is often shorter songs, upbeat, but this is 13 minutes. Was there any fear of people not liking that song? There's nothing boring about it. It just builds and builds and builds, and it's a great way of ending the album.

We started writing long songs way back in 2006. I guess we started with Diabolus, and then we also have long tracks like Fighting the Darkness. We have, I think, in the last couple of albums, we always have one epic track on it, like One Night in December. For us it was natural to write long tunes with them, so we composed Infinity, which is a really, really good song.

When you compose, you don't have to be four minutes or five minutes, or three twenty or whatever. You just write a song and then you say, "Now, I think, I've said it all. Let's come to the end of the song." Then it turns out it's a 13 minute epic track. In the end, I would love to play this song live because it's a great tune, and it's fun to play.

Oh, I'd love to see that live. It would be…

Yeah?

Yeah. I'm not even sure how I would respond. I think I'd be staying in the front row with my camera going, "Ah." Listening to it, it feels like a short song because there's nothing that... There's constant movement. There's ebbs and flows, and it doesn't drag anywhere. It just…

Tom Naumann: I know what you mean. You listen to this song, and then it comes to the lead guitars, and it's already eight minutes gone, or whatever. It's like, "What?" Yeah, it's something that goes so fast that if you listen to it, you don't feel that it's a track that's over 10 minutes long, but it's a cool track.

When composing, one thing I was thinking on before, you've got three guitarists in the band now. You returned in 2015?

Yeah. Magnus, the guy from Sweden, he's been in the band for a long time, but he cannot be on tour for private reasons. He's got three kids, and one is handicapped, I guess, autistic, or so. He will stay at home and take care of the kids. That's why he decided not to go on tour.

But when it comes to writing songs and all that stuff, he's totally involved, and he's a member of the band. Way back in 2014, I got asked by Ralf that they would go on tour and they needed a hired gun and a guitar player because Magnus is going on tour. After I talked to my better half. She said, "I know that you would like to do it. As long as you are there when our new child will be born, I'm fine with it." So I started to go on European tours with the guys, and then America. We finished the tour in Osaka, in Japan, which is not really close to New Zealand, but... Then after the tour, everybody was really happy that I was being the hired gun and I brought back a lot of energy and fun into the band. A couple of days later, Matt asked me if I would like to be a full time member again, so I agreed.

Since then, I'm part of the band. When we are doing recordings, everybody brings in his ideas. Magnus is writing songs. Alex is writing songs, me writing songs. Normally, Magnus is doing all the rhythm work in his studio, and then we decide which solo parts are played by which guy. Then when it comes to the live performance, only Alex and I are on duty, so Magnus stays at home. The album, we are six piece, and live, we are five piece. Yeah, it's so great, and it's really cool.

The last time I played with Magnus was at a festival in Sweden, because he's from Sweden, so he just needed to have a one or two hour ride. He came with his family, and he joined us for a couple of songs at the Sweden rock festival. It was pure fun.

That sounds cool.

Yeah, that was cool. We have a really good relationship when it comes to writing songs. I can listen to his songs, or he's listening to my songs. We always communicate about it, and everything is fine. When I've got an idea or a song, and he needs to record it at home, he's always asking me, "Do you like it that way? How do you play this? How do you play that?" So really communicating in between the band, and this is really good and really, really healthy. It's also very good that I've known the guys for so long a time. We are becoming really close friends. We are not only talking about music; we are talking about football and other stuff. Yeah, it's not only band members-

It's a family. You're family.

Right, family. Yeah.

It's great to actually hear that there is that dynamic, and that the band is open to... I guess it's a work from home situation as a lot of people are doing now. It's just taking it in a slightly different direction.

Yeah - when we started recording our first Primal Fear album, we would go to the studio and we would hang there for two or three weeks, every day. The recording starts, and when the drummer is recording all this stuff, the guitar players are just hanging around, f**king the dog, playing PlayStation, getting drunk, all this stuff. Yeah, you sit there, and then you have only two days to record yourself. But way back then, the studio was really expensive. Now, we've got the opportunity to record yourself at home. There is no time pressure because you know it needs to be done in three weeks. You can start recording a song right now, you can stop, and then you can start recording again. Sometimes it takes a month to record one song, and it's really inspiring because maybe you've got some new ideas, and there is no time pressure. That's what it makes really good.

Nowadays, we are all so good in our studios. We'll continue to record our songs, send it to Magnus, send it to Matt, and then we are working on the songs together. Even Ralf, I never saw Ralf singing for the new album at his studio at home. He starts in the morning, then he's taking a break, and then, I think, in the afternoon or in the evening... He can take his time and bring out the bass.

The only thing that we did, we went into the studio of our front of house mixing guy, and Alex and I will record it, the lead parts there. We got two or three days for our lead parts, which was a little bit of time pressure, but it was also a lot of fun. It was also a lot of inspiring stuff. We laughed a lot, and the mood was really good. We're like, "Now let me play something. I can go, "Why don't you play it like this, or like that?" Then I did a solo.

Alex came along, and was like, "Try to play it like this and that." It was really inspiring. It was a really cool atmosphere, and live in the studio. This was pure fun. Sometimes this is also very good to be with some other guys, to get some new input, because when you're alone in your recording studio, that's sometimes a lot of fun because you're alone, and you can laugh with yourself. You don't get any other input from somebody else.

Cool. I was just thinking, with the "Live in Germany" and the "Live in the USA" albums that you did both in 2017 and 2010, do you guys have much input on how that gets production? Obviously you played it live, but you're not doing the whole, I'm going to record my bits here, and then I'll edit this and we can tweak that over here, and remix that. How does the production side of those live albums work?

We recorded our live CD in our hometown a couple of years ago, because we are a live band. I think we're a really good live band. It was in between touring, so we said we will do a live DVD there. Yeah, we recorded it, we listened to it, and then we make some overdubs here and there, and then run it. We released the DVD. Yeah, it was like right here, right now and see Primal Fear. This is what you get right now, and I think that we will do another live DVD in a couple of years, because it stands for a certain period of time when you release an album or a DVD. Releasing the DVDs is normally pretty easy nowadays, because even if you're a bad band, you can record and film it, and then you go into the studio and do the whole thing again. We are not like that. We were just, wherever is the band, we are tied in place. Okay, you can hear some live minor mistakes, so we just beat it, and then it was all good.

Yeah. I think for a live performance, I'd rather actually see some of those minor flaws that give you that live experience, rather than having it pitch perfect and edited to be no longer actually that live experience.

Yeah, but Mark, if you play live, you play it once and that's it. Sometimes it's good, and sometimes it's not really good, but that's life. If you are to call it a live album or a live CD, they should be live, because you captured the moment. If you pretend to bring out a live album and you go into the studio, unless you're Unleashed In The East by Judas Priest, or Live and Dangerous by Thin Lizzy, which I know is totally done in the studio. You still think it's a live album, but I think if you put out a real live album, it has more magic to it.

If you only play in the studio... We also did some overdubbed stuff here and there. No problem, because you don't want to release an album with a lot of wrong notes on it or some stuff, but I think it has to be a live album, and not unleashed in the studio stuff.

I hope I don't say anything wrong because I love Judas Priest's Unleashed in the East, and I love Thin Lizzy's Live and Dangerous, one of my favorite albums. But after a couple of years, I know the guys. I know Scott Gorham from Lizzy, and he looked at me and said there's not one note live; everything's in the studio. We know that Unleashed in the East is also the same, but that's how it was.

Well, it's been great talking to you. I won't keep you too much longer. I was just going to say, once again, I've been absolutely loving Metal Commando. I think it's the first time we've actually mentioned the name of the album. It is a great album.

Yeah, the name of the album was when we played in America for the first time, they were like, the American guys, "You're German metal commando." Then we printed on our tee shirts German Metal Commando, and then we thought we're going back to Nuclear Blast - maybe it will be cool if we call the album Metal Commando?

That's cool. Excellent.

Hope to see you soon in New Zealand. It would be great. Maybe we could have a nice cold one somewhere in New Zealand.